[VOIPSEC] Fwd: Voipsec Digest, Vol 12, Issue 24 -- "no central call routing"

Thu Dec 29 11:52:05 CST 2005

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Pankaj Shroff <shroffg at gmail.com>
Date: Dec 29, 2005 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: [VOIPSEC] Voipsec Digest, Vol 12, Issue 24 -- "no central
call routing"
To: henry at pulver.com

How do you bill such calls in "carrier-less" environments. Skype-out
works because it is still not pure P2P (not Skype-out at least) -
right? The call would have to go through a gateway over to PSTN, at
which point, you have a de-facto middleman, with routing rules, rate
tables, etc (softswitch?). Are you talking about just P2P VoIP only
markets??? What "market" is that?

Regards,
Pankaj
PS: Just a candid question - not a flame. :)
--
Pankaj Shroff
shroffg at gmail.com

On 12/28/05, Henry Sinnreich <henry at pulver.com> wrote:
> Craig,
>
> > How does carrier-to-carrier work in this scenario?
>
> I will try, though this deserves a longer discussion.
>
> "Carrier for voice" is just a business model that has no crisp technical
> defintion on the Internet. There are however Internet domains that can have
> various owners that are not "carriers" such as enterprises, various
> institutions (government, military), campuses, residential networks (I have
> one with my own SIP proxy inside a $200 Intertex IX67 box and am my own
> "carrier"), community networks and even single laptops as long as they have
> a DNS entry.
>
> P2P networks like Skype may not even need to use DNS and this poses an even
> bigger challenge for law enforcement, especially since Skype is by far the
> biggest VoIP provider in the world.
>
> In short, the emperor (the "Carrier for voice" model) has no clothes. Nor
> has the VoIP network infrastrucure on the market at present, since Skype has
> proven such infrastructure is not necessary (add AOL, Apple, Google, IBM,
> Microsoft, Yahoo and the P2P PBXs on the market such as Avaya and Peerio,
> etc., etc.). Ever heard of them ? :-)> Anyone to suggest they all must be
> blocked? (shocking...)
>
> Commercial (my sincere apology): There will be _P2P SIP_ sessions at the VON
> Spring and VON Europe. Please follow the VON announcements for the agenda.
>
> Thanks, Henry
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lee, Craig [mailto:crlee at nuera.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:58 AM
> To: henry at pulver.com; voipsec at voipsa.org
> Subject: RE: [VOIPSEC] Voipsec Digest, Vol 12, Issue 24 -- "no central call
> routing"
>
> Henry,
>
> Can you elaborate a bit more?  Is there a proxy to identify
> authenticated endpoints?  How does carrier-to-carrier work in this
> scenario?
>
> Thanks in advance for your reply,
>
> Craig
>
> P.S.  No one that I know would flame you!  ;)
>
> Craig Y. Lee
> Vice President, Marketing
> Nuera Communications, Inc.
> 10445 Pacific Center Court
> San Diego, CA  92121  USA
> +1 (858) 625-2400
> +1 (858) 625-2422 FAX
> +1 (858) 335-3692 Mobile
> craig at nuera.com
> http://www.nuera.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Voipsec-bounces at voipsa.org [mailto:Voipsec-bounces at voipsa.org] On
> Behalf Of Henry Sinnreich
> Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 7:05 AM
> To: Voipsec at voipsa.org
> Subject: Re: [VOIPSEC] Voipsec Digest, Vol 12, Issue 24
>
> > You can't sell expensive phones or nobody will be your customer
>
>
>
> Check out the Skype phones, (or the Nimcat/Avaya or Peerio PBX phones).
>
> There is no central call routing and the phones are both secure and
> affordable.
>
>
>
> Both the business models and the platforms (no VoIP infrastructure) are
> different though from the "carrier" model, and this changes the security
> model and cost in a fundamental way.
>
>
>
> Let the flames come! :-)
>
>
>
> Thanks, Henry
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Voipsec-bounces at voipsa.org [mailto:Voipsec-bounces at voipsa.org] On
> Behalf Of Voipsec-request at voipsa.org
> Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 6:00 AM
> To: Voipsec at voipsa.org
> Subject: Voipsec Digest, Vol 12, Issue 24
>
>
>
> Send Voipsec mailing list submissions to
>
>       Voipsec at voipsa.org
>
>
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
>       http://voipsa.org/mailman/listinfo/voipsec_voipsa.org
>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>
>       Voipsec-request at voipsa.org
>
>
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>
>       Voipsec-owner at voipsa.org
>
>
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>
> than "Re: Contents of Voipsec digest..."
>
>
>
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>
>
>    1.  VoIP vulnerabilities summarization (david.castro)
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Message: 1
>
> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 16:12:14 +0100
>
> From: "david.castro" <david.castro at adianta.net>
>
> Subject: [VOIPSEC]  VoIP vulnerabilities summarization
>
> To: Voipsec at voipsa.org
>
> Message-ID: <43B159CE.8030706 at adianta.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
>
> Hello, I'm David.
>
> I've just read your interesting "chat", and I learned a lot, but I'd
>
> like make a question about SIP.
>
> Let's imagine you are making an IP phone-operator. You have a central
>
> access point (server SIP and gateway to PSTN), or several access points
>
> across internet. You can sell to your customers a IP-phone, so they
>
> don't have a computer run to chat on the phone. You can't sell
>
> expensives phones or nobody will be your customer, so the phones hasn't
>
> TLS, IPSEC or proxy SIP, because they are connecting direct to access
> point.
>
> How do you protect this scenario?
>
> I'm using login/password in register request, but in other request I
>
> can't by the phones. What would you do?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Voipsec mailing list
>
> Voipsec at voipsa.org
>
> http://voipsa.org/mailman/listinfo/voipsec_voipsa.org
>
>
>
>
>
> End of Voipsec Digest, Vol 12, Issue 24
>
> ***************************************
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Voipsec mailing list
> Voipsec at voipsa.org
> http://voipsa.org/mailman/listinfo/voipsec_voipsa.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Voipsec mailing list
> Voipsec at voipsa.org
> http://voipsa.org/mailman/listinfo/voipsec_voipsa.org
>

--
Pankaj Shroff
shroffG at Gmail.com

--
Pankaj Shroff
shroffG at Gmail.com